Join us for a great conversation with Taylor Theis, the estate manager for Gran Moraine and Zena Crown in the Willamette Valley. Ute and Taylor discuss what it takes to break into the wine industry, what it takes to be a Master Sommelier and why there are still so few women Master Sommeliers, and what it’s like to be a “geriatric Millennial”!
Another great episode you won’t want to miss.
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Full episode transcript:
Ute: Welcome back to the Thru the Grapewine podcast today with your host, Ute Mitchell. So this is a fun interview I had with Taylor Theis, who is the estate manager for Gran Moraine and Zena Crown Wineries in Oregon. I was really happy to talk to her. We’re diving a little bit further into the sommelier certifications, and if you’ve listened to our most previous a Gen Xer and a Millennial walk into a winery episode, this will be an interesting little follow.
Of course before we get started, download our episodes. That really helps spread the message and helps us climb up in those algorithms. Rate and review us if you have something nice to say. And as always, hop into the show notes for our topic request form and some freebies just for you. And of course, we’re also linking to those wineries.
So let’s hop right into it. So welcome, Taylor!
Taylor Theis: Thank you, Ute. I’m really excited to be speaking with you today.
Ute: I am so happy to have you here today, and I’m gonna just go right into it with your introduction to our listeners. Where are you from? Have you always lived in the Willamette Valley? What do you do?
You know, kind of a quick rundown.
Taylor Theis: Yes, of course. Well, my name is Taylor Theis. And I live in Yamhill, so I live about six minutes away from where I currently work, which is pretty dreamy. It’s the best commute I’ve ever had.
Ute: Oh my gosh, jealous.
Taylor Theis: Yeah, it’s pretty great. So the issues in coming to work are just getting stuck behind a tractor or something to that effect.
But I, so I’m, I’m originally from California. I grew up in a place called Morro Bay and also Visalia, so very ag focused. Morro Bay is pretty close to a wine region that’s called Paso Robles, and so I was around a lot of great, great wine and ag as I was growing up. But I moved to Oregon in about 2011 for grad school, and I took a teaching position in dance at the University of Oregon.
Kind of circuitously arrived in the wine industry, but yeah. And so the Pacific Northwest has been my home since then.
Ute: That’s great. And do you love it? Do you love living here?
Taylor Theis: It’s an amazing place to live. You have to kind of get used to moving a little bit slower and I do like to say that if I wasn’t partnered up, it’s a a little bit of a hard place to try to date because there’s not a lot, a lot going on in this area for that.
Ute: Oh, interesting. You know, and I mean, I, I moved up to Oregon from Arizona and I was married already, but I did notice that making friends in Oregon was difficult as well. And you know, obviously that must have been completely different from dating. But I always felt like a lot of Oregonians, you know, they’re, they’ve lived here their entire lives. And they have their friends, so they don’t really need anybody new.
Taylor Theis: It is a little bit hard to break into a new friendship group. I do have a lot of retired friends and my partner and I take Mondays and Tuesdays off. So it’s like who has Mondays and Tuesdays off as well? You’re either in the industry or you’re retired, so it’s, it’s kind of funny.
Ute: There you go. Yeah. Well, you know, I mean, how great to have friends outside of your own age group.
Taylor Theis: It’s really true. One of my dear friends who has been quite a mentor in terms of career. Her name’s Shirley Mullen and she’s a councilwoman in Carlton, and she’s given me just a lot of great career advice and she is, what did I, she’s probably turning, she’s in her late sixties, so it’s been pretty amazing to just have, be able to tap into that generation in, in just a different way as somebody that I would call a close friend.
Ute: And I think being in the wine industry, it kind of makes it possible to find people that you would not normally run into you or that you would not normally run into. You don’t want them to run into you.
Taylor Theis: Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. The parts about the wine industry that I love so much is just the, the human component. You’re interacting with people who love good food and wine and travel and, and tends to bring pretty neat people together, so it’s great for that.
Ute: Absolutely. Well, so there you go. We both have a love affair with Oregon.
Taylor Theis: Yes. When did you move to Oregon?
Ute: It was in 2006. So I lived in Arizona for six years after coming from Germany and, and Arizona was never for me. I met some really wonderful people there, but just the desert, it was just never my, my thing. And so coming to Oregon, that was the one best decision that we could have made. We love it up here.
Taylor Theis: Yeah, it’s, there’s everything. Farm fresh eggs, you know, our neighbor has the chickens and then we trade, trade them wine for chicken eggs and it’s like, just a lot of real, really great, great stuff.
Ute: I love that. Yeah, for sure. Well, let’s get back to you. You are an estate manager and that sounds pretty big and important. So can you explain to our listeners what it is? You’re the estate manager for Gran Moraine and Zena Crown, is that correct?
Taylor Theis: That’s right. Yeah. So Gran Moraine started in 2013, so it was the very first project here in Oregon for the Jackson Family and started from scratch. From winemaker Shane Moore and Eugenia Keegan and estate manager essentially means I am responsible for everything except for the wine making.
So all the, the glamorous stuff, but the less glamorous stuff as well, day-to-day operations. I manage a small team of really incredible individuals who are kind of moving their way through the wine industry. So I, there’s a large coaching component to what I do and a sales component. I’m responsible for reporting the numbers to back to California and I have 39 counterparts, or roughly 39 counterparts.
So that is one of the benefits. Yeah, being a part of a larger company, which, yeah, when I was doing my career pathing, when I was thinking about how I wanted to see myself move in the wine industry, I started with Don and Wendy Lange and then moved to work with the Campbells at Elk Cove Vineyards, and kind of had my sights set on working for an even larger family business.
So that’s exactly what I was able to to do in taking this position with Jackson family. So day-to-day operations, everything that’s hospitality, I touch: sales, website, marketing, all of that. I get to be a part of those conversations and have a seat at the table.
Ute: That’s really amazing. What a great opportunity. Can you tell us a little bit about Jackson Family? Just who they are. What they do.
Taylor Theis: Yeah, of course. So Jackson Family is, we think of the Kendall Jackson Chardonnay that became this explosive wine for the American palette in the eighties. So it was Jess Jackson and his wife Barbara Banke, who were pretty visionary in, in this world. There wasn’t a huge chardonnay market at this point. And so they saw an opportunity and they, of course, the rest is history. The, the wine exploded. Kendall Jackson Chardonnay is, is among the top chardonnays that you see widely distributed across the world.
And then it was Barbara Banke, who is now the leader of our company. So she’s a, a woman, a female leader at the helm. She saw great opportunity in growing the business through acquisition. So they started to purchase various wineries that were established. And then in the case of Gran Moraine, it was a building. So Laurent Montalieu had started a project, new build for Solena. And then, the building that we are currently in was a part of his Grand Cru Estates that was opened during that 2009/10 era where things were, were really challenging.
So Jackson Family came in. They saw an opportunity for this beautiful building and to start a new brand in Oregon. So they, Barbara worked with Eugenia Keegan, who’s just this powerhouse woman and she was, had great relationships forged here in Oregon. So she was able to get us on the right foot as we entered the Oregon market, which you’ve been here since 06, so you know that Oregonians are really precious with things that are from Oregon. So…
Taylor Theis: …coming in. A California company coming into Oregon could have been difficult, but it was actually a really, a wonderful welcome and a lot of that had to do with Eugenias relationships here in the Willamette Valley and beyond.
Ute: Gotcha. That’s amazing. What a great story. I feel like I wanna learn a little bit more now after we get off our call.
Taylor Theis: Well, a hundred percent, you’re coming out to Gran Moraine and we’ll host you!
Ute: Oh, I’m so, I’m so excited. And now that I know that you’re off on Monday and Tuesdays, I know what days to come, too. So I did take a peek at your LinkedIn profile, and I noticed you are level one certified for the Court of Master Sommeliers. Can you tell our listeners what the certification is and what it entails?
Taylor Theis: Absolutely. I selected Court of Master Somm. There’s multiple certifications that you can, you can achieve, but the Court of Master Somm was mostly, was interesting to me because it’s a large service component. And then there’s this thing called the deductive tasting method. Where you learn to, you learn what a wine is not by being able to state what, what it isn’t, or you learn what it is by stating what it isn’t. And I thought that that was gonna be a really good fit for me. I’m very interested in the presentation of wine and you, may know this, but it is kind of a boys’ club when you get into the wine world. So I did know this going into the Court of Master Somm that it, a lot of my counterparts were going to be men and I wanted to have a seat at that table. So it was important for me to be able to study and I grabbed a study group here locally and each week we would taste through wines of the world and start to train our palates for how we could deduce and be able to go through a blind tasting. So, yeah, I’m a, I’m a level one and it did meet my expectations. You know, there are a lot of, a lot of guys in, in the room and in suits, but I put my shoulder pads on and I, I held my own and was able to pass the first level.
Ute: Good for you! Congratulations!
Taylor Theis: Thank you.
Ute: So I did just record [voices overlap]. Go ahead.
Taylor Theis: Well, I was just gonna say, you know, there’s, in thinking about what the right path for each individual is, if you’re coming into the wine industry, and you can go at it multiple different ways. So credentials aren’t always important, but in Oregon we have access to some incredible resources and people, in general, in Oregon are so generous with sharing knowledge.
So ask good questions. Put yourself in the room with the right people, and if you don’t know how to do that, you know, get in, develop a, a group of friends in the wine industry, and over time by asking good questions and just absorbing as much as possible. But there’s a huge learning there that doesn’t necessarily require that you pay for a credential.
Ute: Absolutely. I totally agree with that. So I actually did just record a, an episode with my business partner, Ali, and we were actually talking about the Court of Master Sommeliers and about the Master Sommelier certification and how very difficult it is. And I remember watching the Somm movies and I see these guys with their, like, thousands of flashcards and, and them studying day and night and getting together and blind tasting the wines and traveling places just to get this, the certification.
Do you have aspirations to become a Master Sommelier someday?
Taylor Theis: Well, I thought of that. So you pass your level one and then you have three years to go on to the next level, and it is important for me.
Ute: Oh, so you have a certain amount of time that you need to…
Taylor Theis: You do.
Ute: Ah, I see.
Taylor Theis: You do. Yes. Otherwise you have to go back and you have to, to take your level one again, you have to re-certify for level one.
So my window has, my window has closed. But the year that I was needing to make a decision, I went through the Master Gardener Program through Oregon State. It’s important for me each year to continue to gather some sort of certification or knowledge to feel like I’m moving forward. And at that time in my life, that felt more relevant to what my interests were.
So I think being in the wine industry, it’s important to be a well-rounded human because when you’re in front of guests who are coming at something with… from all different backgrounds, I wanna be able to speak to many different things. So that was, that was the path that I chose.
Ute: Okay. I am still blown away by this idea that it, it just goes away. You missed your window. Too bad.
Taylor Theis: Yeah. Because there is definitely something to the momentum. So once you get into that mode of studying, it’s very intense. You mentioned the flashcards and they, they do give you a booklet of information that was super valuable, and then there’s all this additional reading that they recommend in order to be successful.
So Karen McNeil’s Wine Bible is one of those books and you get into that mode of every night you’re going through your flashcards and studying, you’re tasting through wines, and you wanna keep that momentum up. And so they’re… they’re smart in saying you should try to expedite it and do it within three years, because then you have to, it’s very hard to get back into that mode again.
Ute: Sure. Yeah, that makes sense. So I know the certification is difficult. I mean, all of them are probably, especially the Master Sommelier. There’s only 273 Master Sommeliers in the whole world. And in the America’s chapter there’s 168 and only 25 of them are women. And I know these numbers literally because I just did that recording with Ali. So here we are. We have 25 women in the Americas as as Master Sommelier. Now I know it’s not because women aren’t smart, because they are, but do you have any thoughts on why it’s still so few women who are attempting this Master Sommelier certification?
Taylor Theis: Well, I, in describing my experience, you know, showing up and you’re looking around the room and you don’t see a lot of women. And so I think it’s just having access to examples. So we need, as women who are on paths of moving ourselves up in the world, we need to also have a big old arm to scoop up the others who are behind us so that we can show examples of leadership and how you… and kind of carve the path and show other women how you get to that path.
But, you know, I’m sure you know Bree Boscov, who is on the Oregon Wine Board here in Oregon. She’s a Master of Wine. She’s an incredible resource. So it’s about, if you’re a young woman coming up in the wine industry, open your eyes and, you know, don’t be afraid to ask other women questions of how you got there.
And some will be really friendly and maybe some aren’t always gonna be as, as sharing, but in my experience, the other women that I’ve had access to have been incredible resources.
Ute: Right. I do agree. And I can totally see to your point of, you know, walking into a room and it’s full of boys. And then there’s me. I mean, I don’t have any aspirations to go that far anyway. I am pretty happy with where I am.
I am retaking my written WSET 3, which is…
Taylor Theis: Amazing.
Ute: …so tough by itself, and I mean, that’s why I failed it. But I just don’t see myself… you know, I don’t need it. I’m not, I’m never gonna be working in a high-end restaurant or anything like that. I could see myself working back in a tasting room like, you know, I, I’d be happy to go back into a tasting room and be a server and pour wine. That’s something that I’ve always enjoyed doing, but I don’t need to be a Master Sommelier for that.
Taylor Theis: No, you’re absolutely right. So I think there’s, again, many paths that we’re gonna get to wherever we land, but it’s just about… get the credential if you feel that you need it, and then boost your confidence. But it, it really isn’t necessary.
You’re starting to see more requests for credentials or requirements for credentials to apply for, for jobs in the wine industry. But I think, you know, if you can meet that right person, get a seat at the table, you can, and you have a hunger for learning and you’re a well-rounded person. You have a lot to offer a tasting room or any sort of position in the wine industry.
Ute: Yeah. So in looking at your LinkedIn profile, because I stalked you a little bit, I’m gathering that you’re a millennial. Is that correct?
Taylor Theis: Ute, they actually call me a geriatric millennial , because I’m on the older end of millennial. I read an article recently that was like, if you are this age and above, you’re actually a geriatric millennial because you knew a life before having a cell phone and being so attached to a computer. So you can communicate across multiple generations. So I think it’s an asset to be a geriatric millennial.
Ute: Oh my gosh!, I’ve never heard that! This is so great.
Taylor Theis: I’m glad that I could bring it to the table.
Ute: Well, so how do you feel as millennial? As a geriatric millennial?
Taylor Theis: Well, I’m feeling great. I do…the things that I mentioned about being to kinda cross-communicate… I have friends who are older and friends who are younger, and there is some value in knowing a life before we were so tethered to our cell phones and the means of communication was, you know, via text. I write snail mail letters and it’s something that’s really important in this business that we do.
It’s very high touch and there’s a concierge aspect to what we do, and so having had that experience and that upbringing has made things a little easier to navigate in, in this industry.
Ute: So isn’t that just great? So you as a geriatric millennial and me as a GenXer, we’re watching the younger generation come into the wine industry and it’s just been so much fun.
So I am a member of the Women in Wine Oregon. I don’t know if you are. It’s been so great to see some of the younger, younger women. Coming into the wine industry and really embracing this new generation and, and who they are and what they bring to the table as wine drinkers.
Taylor Theis: Absolutely. My younger sister, so I have a stepsister who just turned 21 in May and she lives in California.
She’s, she’s a Fresno State student, and she reached out last year and asked if I would be open to having her out for an internship in the wine industry. So it was, it was really cool. She came to live with, with my fiance and I for the summer and she worked at AnnAmie. And she was just such a social media pro and she was bringing all this new language forward to us and it just felt so invigorating to have a younger person in our world.
Taylor Theis: I can see why, you know, people who have children, it’s great to, to be connected to just different generations. There’s so much value in it.
Ute: Absolutely. You know, and this is so funny with the social media. My, my middle daughter is, she’s turning 22 next week, actually.
Taylor Theis: Wow.
Ute: So, She is just a social media maven.
She, she knows how to put the posts together and she has this eye for the aesthetic and everything is about the aesthetic, you know, and I’m just sitting over here going, I don’t know. I’m just gonna post something. So I’m having to really learn, you know, a lot of the social media stuff where I’m going. I feel definitely geriatric now!
But I know it’s such a great thing. You know, if you’re, if you are working, especially in a winery or something, and you want to have that presence on social media, to hire someone younger because they know what they’re doing! Forget the certifications and the bachelor’s degrees and whatnot, look at what they’re doing on social media and then go and hire them.
Taylor Theis: It’s true. Yeah. And I think it’s, it’s important that in a team, that you have multiple generations represented.
Ute: Yeah. Absolutely
Taylor Theis: Because you do want the voice of somebody that’s a little bit more mature and then, but that savvy, the tech savvy is what’s so impressive about younger generations. So, I certainly learned a lot and I probably, again, being on the later end of millennial, I tether this world of I wanna disconnect. If I’m hiking in an incredible place, I don’t want my phone with me because I wanna take it all in. But then you sort of miss being able to be a part of the place that we’re in, in our culture of being able to communicate all of these amazing things as well.
So yeah, it’s, it’s a constant learning.
Ute: Yes, it is. So, let’s pivot just a little bit. I wanna talk about your favorite wines and more specifically about your favorite wines from Gran Moraine and Zena Crown, of course. Both wineries are all about their pinot noir and I’d like to just know from each of them, which one do you just love?
Is there, is there a favorite or are they all just that great?
Taylor Theis: Yeah. I think with wine it’s like, what’s so cool about it is your environment really influences how you experience a wine. So while we’re largely focused on pinot noir, Gran Moraine, surprisingly is… we’re a bit more of a chardonnay and a sparkling house than even pinot noir.
Ute: Okay. All right.
Taylor Theis: So, yeah. So when you come out, I’ll make sure that you, you get to explore all the varietals, but chardonnay is really what we’re, we’re digging here at Gran Moraine. So, we make quite a few different chardonnay. And then we have a 100% chardonnay that is Blanc de Blancs that we just released. It’s a 2015, so I’m very excited, as you can hear! That’s probably my favorite wine from, from Gran Moraine, is this 2015, 100% chardonnay Blanc de Blancs, and it’s just magnificent. It’s very luxurious. The bubbles are really refined, but it’s caught all of that depth and oomph because it’s been, I guess it was four years on tirage, so it’s just a delicious wine.
Taylor Theis: And then from with Zena Crown, the wines. The vineyard is in the Eola-Amity, so it’s volcanic soil, so very different than Gran Moraine, which is all marine sedimentary soil. So with Zena Crown largely focused on pinot noir. We do have a chardonnay coming that will be released at the end of next year.
But pinot pinot pinot is what we’re all about. So the 2017 Slope is probably my favorite right now. It’s got all of that amazing earthy undercurrent. It’s like forest floor, but gorgeous floral nose. And there’s this tobacco spice to the wine that’s pretty delicious!
Ute: I, and I love the Zena Crown name. So I just actually read the tasting note for the Vista and even for a pinot noir, some of the flavor profiles mentioned are kind of a little bit out of the ordinary. And I’m gonna read this from the website here real quick. “Aromas of bark cherry.” So, I don’t have any idea what that is. “Heirloom strawberry, coffee, and turmeric lead into flavors of Timothy hay, thimble berry and cranberry sauce reduction on the palate, satiny underlying scratchy texture like silk wrapped around a burlap bag engulf the finish, like a king wave of a rock jetty.” Now…
Taylor Theis: We don’t have any fun writing those notes. No fun at all.
Ute: Okay. Did you drink while writing?
Taylor Theis: It’s possible!
Ute: You know, so as a, as a uber wine connoisseur, I’d probably be, you know, sitting here reading this going, oh yeah, bark cherry and turmeric and everything.
But for a layperson, what would you tell them when they read a tasting note like this, and they’re very confused, how would you suggest they go about tasting and at least getting some of what is described in this tasting note?
Taylor Theis: That’s great. So tasting notes are ever evolving. We should probably mention that. So when the moment that they’re written, the wine is continuing to evolve beyond that point. So the tasting notes are, they’re kind of like those bumpers in a bowling alley. You know, they’re just kind of there to, to hold some parameters for when you’re tasting a wine. But really it’s about how does this wine make you feel?
What are some things that you gather from the wine? And most importantly, do you enjoy the way it tastes? So I think this is where wine can be a bit intimidating cuz you read something like that and you’re new to wine and you go, oh gosh, I don’t know anything. But we go to wild places when we write these.
Our winemaker, Shane was a former professional musician and so he brings a lot, a lot of creativity. This really interesting sensibility to how he approaches writing tasting notes. I would say to a beginner, it’s at first, you know, do you like the wine and all of the other noise is just meant to provide some kind of benchmarks or some suggestions.
Ute: For sure. And I think, and I wrote a quick little guide that I just uploaded to Instagram too, on how to taste wine and you know, really kind of trying to focus on do I taste fruity flavor, or is it more woody? I mean, almost anybody will recognize an oaked flavor. For instance, you know, almost anybody would go, oh yeah, I taste the wood in there.
Taylor Theis: Absolutely.
Ute: Do you, do you taste high acidity? Like, do you, do you drool a lot? That’s like a really great indicator for high acidity. You know, is it sweet? How long do you taste it after finishing it to understand what, what a long finish is? So this is something that I would probably say to a beginner who is just wanting to get kind of a general understanding and not feel like they need to, you know, taste things like bark cherry and Timothy hay.
Taylor Theis: Those are very specific, aren’t they? So a great tool is the Wine Folly tasting wheel. So everything that you just mentioned. The tasting wheel is a, a really great tool if you’re getting into it and you wanna go explore some tasting experiences to take that wheel out with you or at home when you’re opening bottles and asking yourself those questions.
And then again, going back to the deductive tasting method from the Court of Master Somm, it’s a document that you can find online, and it’s a great tool just to print out and kind of go through those questions with yourself. Is this old world, new world? Are able to determine that by the color, the smell, the legs… so some great tools out there.
Ute: I will put that document into the show notes as well so that it can be easily accessed for listeners. So I do have one last question for you. I can’t believe we are already through basically. But I always feel like I have to ask this question. What wine regions have you traveled to outside of the Willamette Valley? Now I know of course you’re from California and, and then which one stands out to you? Like, which one do you wanna just go back to? Because it was so great?
Taylor Theis: Oh, so fun. Well, we… every time we’re traveling somewhere, we’re building the, the trip around. Where can we go wine taste, and what sort of food are we going to explore?
But Paso, Paso Robles in California. Amador County, Napa, Sonoma. And then outside of the US: Tuscany and more, more recently Portugal. And my partner and I loved Portugal so much, we’re actually headed to the Azores next week to go explore the, the islands off the coast of Portugal. So they’re known for volcanic…
Ute: Oooo! Fun!
Taylor Theis: Yes. So definitely a place that piqued my interest and we’re, we’re headed back next week.
Ute: So now the question is, are you gonna have your phone with you and take pictures so that I can see them online?
Taylor Theis: Yes, yes. It’s like the way that we use our phones now, it’s our, we don’t print photographs and so it’s kind of our travel journal too. So I will post photos so you can see.
Ute: I love that I, and this is, you know, just to get back to what you were saying earlier, how you really don’t love having your phone with you when you’re going places. And as you were saying this, I was like, yeah, the, the thing is though, if I don’t have my phone, I can’t capture any of the the beautiful sights that I see. And like you said, you know, it’s not like you have a camera with 24 pictures.
Taylor Theis: Yes.
Ute: With a little film roll. So you, you almost have to have something with you. And you might take more pictures than you would normally with a regular camera, but you also get some pretty awesome shots that way.
Taylor Theis: It’s true. Yeah, it’s true. And then you have those long flights where you can comb through all the photos and…. and hopefully organize them for yourself. But…
Ute: Ah, the long flights. If only those weren’t a thing, I had an interview with Leanne Morris, who is from Australia. She’s actually a writer and she writes about Hunter Valley wineries.
And so she said, well, you’ll just have to come to Australia. And I’m going, well, yeah, that would be great. But do you know how long that trip is?
Taylor Theis: You’ll have to do Australia and New Zealand together. That’s what I hear. Try to take four weeks and see them both in the same time.
Ute: That is my thought. Yes. And you know, maybe record some podcast episodes while I’m there.
Taylor Theis: Amazing.
Ute: Yeah, that would be great!
Taylor Theis: Amazing. Love it.
Ute: Well, and that is really it and, and I feel like you’ve already given some really great advice earlier to women who want to break into the wine industry, but is there like a final piece of, you know, advice, a word of wisdom that you can share?
Taylor Theis: I think just don’t be afraid. Just ask questions and don’t be afraid to speak up. And there are so many people who, and, and there’s been so many men in my career who have been very generous with sharing information. Thinking of Adam Campbell and Mark Jurasevich, my first person who got me really excited about wine, so it’s, how much can we we share and how much can we learn from each other. And just don’t be afraid to ask questions.
Ute: I love that. And with that, if you do have a topic that you would like discussed, if you have a woman in wine that we need to either feature or interview, I’m going to put the topic request form into the show notes.
So go ahead and fill that out. And really any question that you have, you can put that right in there as well, and we’ll discuss it on the podcast.
Taylor, thank you so much for taking the time and talking to me. It was a pleasure and I’m definitely coming out there in the next couple of weeks for sure.
Taylor Theis: Ute, thank you so much. It’s been a pleasure to talk with you, and I look forward to having you out at Gran Moraine and Zena Crown when we open next September. September of 2023.
Ute: Awesome. All right, excellent. Well, thank you so much and all I have left to say to you is, of course,